Future Of The Mortality Files

 

From: Bernie [mailto:hill55@vtown.com.au]
Sent: Friday, 12 November 2010 7:50 AM
To: Katter MP IND Bob; Wilkie Independent MP Andrew; Oakshott MP Independent Robert; MP Independent Tony Windsor; Crook MP NATS IND Anthony (tony); For Stephen Smith; Defence Minister Stephen Smith MP ALP; Bell Marilyn
Cc: PMAC; RAR Association National Secretary; Bain Dr Rod; RSL National Office; Naval Assoc National Pres; Office1; Defence Force Welfare Asso; McBean Editor Army News Graham; Infantry Magazine Defence; St Mary's The Train; NSW Vietnam Veterans Secretary Central West; VVAA National President Vietnam Veterans; Keneally Christine; TPI Orange; TPI Secretary VIC; TPI ACT Secretary; TPI Secretary NSW; TPI Secretary SA; TPI Secretary TAS
Subject: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE *POSTS*

 

 

 VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE

 
Hi Allen
 
Carolyn Spiers ' answer (invoking the Privacy Act, ) is rubbish...!!!
Especially when you consider, that they would NOT have breached any Privacy Act , by simply notifying. The Viet Veteran Mort Web Site, of the death of a Vet, ....when that death would have already been in the Public Arena (via  NEWSPAPER notices re funeral etc ), and is therefore , already PUBLIC KNOWLEGE !!
 
I would think that ANY surviving family , of a deceased Veteran  would be relieved , that the mates who served with their son/daughter, had a way of being informed of the death, through the Vietnam Veteran's Mortality Web Site.
What Carolyn Spiers IS invoking, in her answer , is the usual Govt's  spin , of what we call the " Mushroom Syndrome "......i.e. ,
 
KEEP THEM IN THE DARK & FEED THEM NOTHING BUT BULLSHIT !!
 
We have to be the most "over Regulated " society in the world Click Me!....and how stupid are we , to Allow It !!!
 
 
Jenny Bell
[][]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Allen Petersen
Date: 11/10/10 01:28:13
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:,
Subject: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE
 
 
From: Spiers, Carolyn
To: petersaj@bigpond.net.au
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 11:52 AM
Subject:  Veterans Mortality Web Site...

 

Dear  Mr Petersen


I refer to your email to  the Secretary sent on 1 November which questioned why the Department does not provide information in relation to deceased Vietnam veterans directly to the operators of the Vietnam Veterans Mortality website.  The Secretary has asked me to respond on his behalf.

 

I am writing to confirm  that it is not possible for DVA to provide this information directly to the operators of the website.  The Department is bound by the Commonwealth Privacy Act 1988 which regulates the handling of 'personal information' and aims to protect the privacy of individuals.  The Information Privacy Principles (IPPs), set out in section 14 of the Act, impose obligations on agencies regarding the way personal information is handled.

 

The Principles:

·      regulate the way Government agencies collect, store, use and disclose personal information about people;

·      allow people access to information agencies keep about them; and

·      allow people to request changes to information.

 

In particular IPP 11.1 sets out when an agency may disclose personal information to another person or agency. The can be done where:

  • The person is reasonably aware that the information is the kind usually passed to that other person or agency;
  • The person consents to the disclosure;
  • The disclosure is required or authorised by law; or
  • There are special circumstance, such as a health and safety or law enforcement reasons.


While personal information about deceased persons is not specifically covered by the Privacy Act, the Federal Privacy Commissioner has encouraged agencies to be sensitive to the interests of surviving family members when considering disclosure of such information.   Given the advice of the Privacy Commissioner, the Department protects the personal information of a deceased client as if the Privacy Act does apply to that information. 

 

For instance, as part of the process of compiling a nominal roll, the Department undertakes a significant publicity campaign to inform individuals and family members (in the event of the service member’s death) of the intention to create the roll.  This allows the individual or family member to seek an exclusion from the roll.

 

Even putting the privacy issues to one side, the Department  only holds and updates information about those Vietnam veterans who are in receipt of pensions, allowances or other services funded by the Department.  As you would appreciate, there are some Vietnam veterans who have not and may never approach this Department for assistance.  As such, the Department does not hold information on all Vietnam veterans.

 

I trust this information is of assistance in understanding why your request is not possible.

 

Regards,

 

Carolyn Spiers

National Manager

Business Integrity & Legal Services
 


From: Allen Petersen [ mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 2:24 PM
To: Campbell, Ian
Cc: Telford, Barry; Douglas, Ken
Subject: Veterans Mortality Web Site...
 
Gentlemen, I'm concerned  that Vietnam Veterans Memorial can only be updated without DVA's help. Can you explain why? ......Allen
 
 
G'day All,
 
Just a heads up to let you know that the Mortality Website has been upgraded for the month of October, and that 79 new names from all services have been added to it. Unfortunately that is 154 of our mates that added to the list in the past two months.
 
Thank you all for your help in keeping the Vietnam Veterans Memorial updated as best we can without DVA'S help. Without your input the passing of our mates would go unrecognized.
 
                                                "LEST WE FORGET"
 
Regards,
 
John R Howard
Malaysia, Borneo, Vietnam Veteran & DFRB Superannuant.
 
I am continually updating Terry Fogarty's Vietnam Veterans Mortality Website and it would be appreciated if you could notify me of the details of our departed Vietnam Veteran Mates [all past/present deaths included] I will continue to update the web site on the Ist of the Month basis.  john.howard6@bigpond.com
 
The MORTALITY SITE WAS LAST UPDATED ON THE 1st November 2010, YOU CAN VIEW IT BY USING THE LINK IN BLUE BELOW.
 
The website is located at  http://amvif.com/mortality/
 
"OUR LIVES BEGIN TO END, THE DAY WE BECOME SILENT ABOUT THINGS  THAT MATTER"
MARTIN LUTHER KING
 
 
 
 
FREE Animations for your email - by IncrediMail! Click Here! 

 

From: Terry Fogarty [mailto:terry.fogarty5@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 11 November 2010 6:32 AM
To: 'Allen Petersen'
Cc: 'John R Howard'; 'remloc@optusnet.com.au'
Subject: RE: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE

 

Allen,

John,

Ted,

 

I’m happy to put emails up on the web site.

Probably need to create a new web page – that’s not hard.

I don’t particularly want to censor people’s thoughts but I would do it manually.

I.e. the emails would have to be sent to me and I would upload them.

I’ve tried the automatic way and you end up with pornographic material which some people attribute to the web site.

 

Another thought is to see if the Funeral Directors would be prepared to provide such information.

Consent of NOK would be required but in most cases it would probably be given.

Tony Scroope told me that they were required to advise DVA.

 

If response was sufficient a “Veterans Funeral Notices” web site could be established.

It would be low cost advertising for funeral directors.

It probably would not take much to canvas them.

 

It possibly is a good issue for veterans to campaign on.

There is negligible cost involved in relation to total DVA budget.

Even more so when compared to wasted “stimulus” items.

 

I’ve been surprised by the web traffic the site generates.

I think John Howard has done a lot to promote the site with the help of other veterans such as yourselves.

 

DVA are only concerned with privacy issues when it suits them.

Our dates of birth are readily available from the Nominal Rolls as are our full names etc.

KIA veterans have plenty of personal details readily disclosed in the media etc.

 

Thanks to everyone.

 

Cheers,

 

Terry Fogarty

16 Mann Avenue

Northgate Qld 4013

Telephone: (07) 3266 6636

Mobile: 0419 668 197

Email: terry.fogarty5@gmail.com

Webs: http://amvif.com

A Fair Go For Responsible Dog Owners - http://fairgoqdogs.com

 

 

From: Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 9:01 PM
To: Terry Fogarty
Cc: John R Howard
Subject: Fw: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE
Importance: High

 

 

**John/Terry your thoughts on publishing Ted's missive and info. I'm I right  in assuming 'disclosed FOI  information' is exempt from

 Privacy Act provisions?  This quote from Carolyn Spiers email below:

 

"While personal information about deceased persons is not specifically covered by the Privacy Act, the Federal Privacy Commissioner has encouraged agencies to be sensitive to the interests of surviving family members when considering disclosure of such information.   Given the advice of the Privacy Commissioner, the Department protects the personal information of a deceased client as if the Privacy Act does apply to that information. "

 

Allen

 

 

From: remloc

To: 'Allen Petersen'

Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 6:12 PM

Subject: RE: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE

 

Allen, 

Please circulate, and I’m not concerned about my privacy with such serious matters.

Keep presenting them with lists of Vietnam veterans’ names and service numbers, requiring nothing more than information from DVA FOI on whether they are SURVIVING OR DECEASED [WITH A DOD]

This info is immediately available from their computers, and certainly not time consuming.

Use the reference I have provided if required, albeit, I don’t know if it would create an ongoing precedence, or is otherwise useful, albeit, my inquiry was premised on nothing more than establishing the names of those members listed that have passed away, including their date of death etc.

Personally, I don’t care about exposure with such matters.

With the 2nd D & E Platoon inquiries: 3 [three] of the men from a total of 40 [forty] presented were unknown to DVA as clients, which is about 7.5%.  I know two of these men returned to Scotland. I can’t say these statistics are a “yardstick” that represent the average DVA clients per platoon, or unit, but it is an accurate measurement for this rifle platoon, and of course it would vary somewhat from unit to unit.

Unfortunately DVA only respond to constant and unrelenting pressure, with a legal, ethical and moral focus of persuasion.

This is a worthwhile project and I sincerely hope that John Howard succeeds. 

Ted Colmer

 

From: Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 6:29 PM
To: remloc
Subject: Re: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE

Ted, can I pass this onto John Howard and Terry Fogarty who maintain the website- deleting  references to you and DVA. This info makes a lie of DVA's Privacy policy below? 

cheers, Allen

 

 

 

From: remloc

To: 'Allen Petersen'

Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:16 AM

Subject: RE: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE

 

PRIVATE PLEASE:

From: Blair, Rhonda

To: remloc@optusnet.com.au

Cc: King, Jodie ; Ryan, Lyn

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:48 PM

Subject: SEARCH AND LISTING OF DECEASED MEMBERS [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

good afternoon, Mr Colmer

 I refer to your request to Lyn Ryan of our office for information about members of your platoon who are deceased.  I have gone through your list of members this morning, and would like to advise the following:

 The following members are recorded on our database, and are deceased (date of death in brackets):

9. Pte Robert Joseph CAIRNS, 218602 - DOB: 12/08/1949  -  DECEASED    (6/5/2002)

32. Owen William SCHULER, 1201677 - DOB: 05/02/1945  -  deceased (11/2/1975)

34. Pte Anthony SEYCHELL, 39483 - DOB: 13/08/1947 - DECEASED, DOD: JANUARY 2008 -  (date of death is actually 3/12/2007).

Our computer database does not show details of the cause of death, nor the place of death of veterans. 

 

There is no record at all on the Department of Veterans' Affairs computer database of:

14. Pte Leonard ELLCOMBE, 312601 - DOB: 03/07/1945 - BELIEVED DECEASED GLASGOW SCOTLAND?,

16. Pte Colin James FAHY, 1201633 - DOB: 9/11/1949,  

22. Pte Dennis James MCGREGOR, 312644 - DOB: 26/08/1949,  and

28. Pte Brian RENNIE, 312641 (Deceased DOW 9 RAR) DOB: 09/08/1948 - DOD: 07/09/1969

as such, we cannot confirm if these gentlemen (#'s 14, 16, 22) are alive or deceased.

 

I trust that this informtion will be of assistance to you.

regards 
Rhonda Blair
Supervisor - Freedom of Information
Sydney Office
Phone:  (02) 9213 7778
Fax:     (02) 9213 7400
e-mail:  Rhonda.Blair@dva.gov.au

 

From: Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 2:09 AM
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE

 From: Spiers, Carolyn

To: petersaj@bigpond.net.au

Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 11:52 AM

Subject:  Veterans Mortality Web Site...

 

Dear  Mr Petersen 


I refer to your email to  the Secretary sent on 1 November which questioned why the Department does not provide information in relation to deceased Vietnam veterans directly to the operators of the Vietnam Veterans Mortality website.  The Secretary has asked me to respond on his behalf. 

 

I am writing to confirm  that it is not possible for DVA to provide this information directly to the operators of the website.  The Department is bound by the Commonwealth Privacy Act 1988 which regulates the handling of 'personal information' and aims to protect the privacy of individuals.  The Information Privacy Principles (IPPs), set out in section 14 of the Act, impose obligations on agencies regarding the way personal information is handled.

 

The Principles:

·      regulate the way Government agencies collect, store, use and disclose personal information about people;

·      allow people access to information agencies keep about them; and

·      allow people to request changes to information.

 

In particular IPP 11.1 sets out when an agency may disclose personal information to another person or agency. The can be done where:

  • The person is reasonably aware that the information is the kind usually passed to that other person or agency;
  • The person consents to the disclosure;
  • The disclosure is required or authorised by law; or
  • There are special circumstance, such as a health and safety or law enforcement reasons.

While personal information about deceased persons is not specifically covered by the Privacy Act, the Federal Privacy Commissioner has encouraged agencies to be sensitive to the interests of surviving family members when considering disclosure of such information.   Given the advice of the Privacy Commissioner, the Department protects the personal information of a deceased client as if the Privacy Act does apply to that information. 

 

For instance, as part of the process of compiling a nominal roll, the Department undertakes a significant publicity campaign to inform individuals and family members (in the event of the service member’s death) of the intention to create the roll.  This allows the individual or family member to seek an exclusion from the roll.

 

Even putting the privacy issues to one side, the Department  only holds and updates information about those Vietnam veterans who are in receipt of pensions, allowances or other services funded by the Department.  As you would appreciate, there are some Vietnam veterans who have not and may never approach this Department for assistance.  As such, the Department does not hold information on all Vietnam veterans.

 

I trust this information is of assistance in understanding why your request is not possible.

 

Regards,

 

Carolyn Spiers

National Manager

Business Integrity & Legal Services 


From: Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 2:24 PM
To: Campbell, Ian
Cc: Telford, Barry; Douglas, Ken
Subject: Veterans Mortality Web Site...

 

Gentlemen, I'm concerned  that Vietnam Veterans Memorial can only be updated without DVA's help. Can you explain why? ......Allen

 

 

G'day All,

 

Just a heads up to let you know that the Mortality Website has been upgraded for the month of October, and that 79 new names from all services have been added to it. Unfortunately that is 154 of our mates that added to the list in the past two months.

 

Thank you all for your help in keeping the Vietnam Veterans Memorial updated as best we can without DVA'S help. Without your input the passing of our mates would go unrecognized.

 

                                                 "LEST WE FORGET" 

 

Regards,

 

John R Howard

Malaysia, Borneo, Vietnam Veteran & DFRB Superannuant. 

 

I am continually updating Terry Fogarty's Vietnam Veterans Mortality Website and it would be appreciated if you could notify me of the details of our departed Vietnam Veteran Mates [all past/present deaths included] I will continue to update the web site on the Ist of the Month basis.  john.howard6@bigpond.com

 

The MORTALITY SITE WAS LAST UPDATED ON THE 1st November 2010, YOU CAN VIEW IT BY USING THE LINK IN BLUE BELOW.

 

The website is located at  http://amvif.com/mortality/ 

 

"OUR LIVES BEGIN TO END, THE DAY WE BECOME SILENT ABOUT THINGS  THAT MATTER"

MARTIN LUTHER KING

 

 

   

 

 

From: Terry Fogarty [mailto:terry.fogarty5@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 6:22 AM
To: 'Carolyn.Spiers@dva.gov.au'
Cc: 'petersaj@bigpond.net.au'; 'John R Howard'
Subject: RE: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE

 

Carolyn,

 

John Howard (from Wodonga – not the ex PM) maintains the “Mortality Files” and sends updated Excel Files every month.

I upload them to my web site.

 

My letter to Alan Griffin and his reply are enclosed as attachments.

 

My original intention was for DVA to run these files.

 

The workload is really too much for any one individual.

Tony Scroope who started them found that to be the case.

I also did – it took me an average of about 15 minutes to process each entry.

I think John is also finding the workload pretty heavy – I think he added about 150 entries for the last two months.

Most Vietnam Veterans are probably 60 years of age or older so the rate of deaths will only increase.

 

A summary of web visits for the last year is below:

 

 

I appreciate the fact that Allen Petersen took the trouble to contact you.

 

In terms of the overall DVA Budget any expenditure would be very small.

 

You could develop an online “Funeral Notices” section for all veterans, not just Vietnam Veterans.

Australia’s veterans are spread not only all around Australia but all around the world.

 

Cheers,

 

Terry Fogarty

16 Mann Avenue

Northgate Qld 4013

Telephone: (07) 3266 6636

Mobile: 0419 668 197

Email: terry.fogarty5@gmail.com

Webs: http://amvif.com

A Fair Go For Responsible Dog Owners - http://fairgoqdogs.com

 

 

From: Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 12:45 AM
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE

 

 

From: Spiers, Carolyn

To: petersaj@bigpond.net.au

Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 11:52 AM

Subject:  Veterans Mortality Web Site...

 

Dear  Mr Petersen 


I refer to your email to  the Secretary sent on 1 November which questioned why the Department does not provide information in relation to deceased Vietnam veterans directly to the operators of the Vietnam Veterans Mortality website.  The Secretary has asked me to respond on his behalf. 

 

I am writing to confirm  that it is not possible for DVA to provide this information directly to the operators of the website.  The Department is bound by the Commonwealth Privacy Act 1988 which regulates the handling of 'personal information' and aims to protect the privacy of individuals.  The Information Privacy Principles (IPPs), set out in section 14 of the Act, impose obligations on agencies regarding the way personal information is handled.

 

The Principles:

·      regulate the way Government agencies collect, store, use and disclose personal information about people;

·      allow people access to information agencies keep about them; and

·      allow people to request changes to information.

 

In particular IPP 11.1 sets out when an agency may disclose personal information to another person or agency. The can be done where:

  • The person is reasonably aware that the information is the kind usually passed to that other person or agency;
  • The person consents to the disclosure;
  • The disclosure is required or authorised by law; or
  • There are special circumstance, such as a health and safety or law enforcement reasons.

While personal information about deceased persons is not specifically covered by the Privacy Act, the Federal Privacy Commissioner has encouraged agencies to be sensitive to the interests of surviving family members when considering disclosure of such information.   Given the advice of the Privacy Commissioner, the Department protects the personal information of a deceased client as if the Privacy Act does apply to that information. 

 

For instance, as part of the process of compiling a nominal roll, the Department undertakes a significant publicity campaign to inform individuals and family members (in the event of the service member’s death) of the intention to create the roll.  This allows the individual or family member to seek an exclusion from the roll.

 

Even putting the privacy issues to one side, the Department  only holds and updates information about those Vietnam veterans who are in receipt of pensions, allowances or other services funded by the Department.  As you would appreciate, there are some Vietnam veterans who have not and may never approach this Department for assistance.  As such, the Department does not hold information on all Vietnam veterans.

 

I trust this information is of assistance in understanding why your request is not possible.

 

Regards,

 

Carolyn Spiers

National Manager

Business Integrity & Legal Services 


From: Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 2:24 PM
To: Campbell, Ian
Cc: Telford, Barry; Douglas, Ken
Subject: Veterans Mortality Web Site...

 

Gentlemen, I'm concerned  that Vietnam Veterans Memorial can only be updated without DVA's help. Can you explain why? ......Allen

 

 

G'day All,

 

Just a heads up to let you know that the Mortality Website has been upgraded for the month of October, and that 79 new names from all services have been added to it. Unfortunately that is 154 of our mates that added to the list in the past two months.

 

Thank you all for your help in keeping the Vietnam Veterans Memorial updated as best we can without DVA'S help. Without your input the passing of our mates would go unrecognized.

 

                                                 "LEST WE FORGET" 

 

Regards,

 

John R Howard

Malaysia, Borneo, Vietnam Veteran & DFRB Superannuant. 

 

I am continually updating Terry Fogarty's Vietnam Veterans Mortality Website and it would be appreciated if you could notify me of the details of our departed Vietnam Veteran Mates [all past/present deaths included] I will continue to update the web site on the Ist of the Month basis.  john.howard6@bigpond.com

 

The MORTALITY SITE WAS LAST UPDATED ON THE 1st November 2010, YOU CAN VIEW IT BY USING THE LINK IN BLUE BELOW.

 

The website is located at  http://amvif.com/mortality/ 

 

"OUR LIVES BEGIN TO END, THE DAY WE BECOME SILENT ABOUT THINGS  THAT MATTER"

MARTIN LUTHER KING